John, Yoko, and a 'beautiful boy': How author David Sheff's life was shaped by three relationships

David Sheff [00:00:00] As he came nearer and nearer to dying, or doing some other irreversible damage to himself, I felt that I was a terrible father. I wasn't able to protect myself. 

Sophie Bearman [00:00:23] This is Life in Seven Songs from The San Francisco Standard. I'm Sophie Bearman. This week, I'm speaking with the best-selling author and journalist, David Sheff, whose most recent book is a biography of the musician Yoko Ono. But you might know his work best from his memoir, "Beautiful Boy, A Father's Journey Through His Son's Addiction," a number one New York Times bestseller that was also named best nonfiction book of the year by Entertainment Weekly in 2008. The book was later made into a film called "Beautiful Boy," starring Steve Carell and Timothee Chalamet. What makes David's voice so powerful is that it comes from being a parent, not a professional. And one note, you'll notice in this episode, David shares six songs, not seven. David Sheff, welcome to the show. 

David Sheff [00:01:09] Yeah, Sophie, thank you so much. 

Sophie Bearman [00:01:11] So David, let's go to a song right away, because your memoir, "Beautiful Boy" - it's in reference to a John Lennon song, right? 

David Sheff [00:01:19] Yeah, I was there when John sang that song in the recording studio that's on the record. It's this beautiful lullaby that he wrote for his son. And I ended up singing that song to my son when he was born and then later to my daughter with the lyrics changed a little bit to Beautiful Girl and then to my other son, as well. And I was like countless other parents who sang that to their children. I mean, it became a lullaby that we expressed our love in. It's also a very poignant song in that it talks about, hold my hand when you cross the street. Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans. I mean, it really talks about what it is like to be a parent and to be worried about your child and to want to protect them. So I loved it when I first heard it, when it was written, and then it became part of the soundtrack of my life as a father. It's this beautiful, joyful celebration, but it also comes with great sadness when I hear it, because it was the story of my beautiful boy who I almost lost. 

Speaker 3 [00:02:21] Close your eyes / Have no fear / The monster's gone, he's on the run and your daddy's here / Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful / Beautiful boy 

David Sheff [00:02:44] You know, John ends the song speaking directly to Sean, his son, "darling, darling darling, Sean. Good night, Sean, see you in the morning." And whenever I hear that, it just breaks my heart because of course Sean lost his father. 

Sophie Bearman [00:02:57] And John Lennon's murder, that happened shortly after you'd spent three weeks interviewing John and Yoko. 

David Sheff [00:03:05] Yeah, I got a call, it was December 7th, 1980, and I got call from Yoko and John to tell me that they read the interview and they were pleased with it, which was nice. And then later, I was watching football and Howard Cosell, the announcer, interrupted the game to say that John Lennon had been shot and killed. And I, of course, was completely blown away and just devastated. I flew to New York that night and there was a gathering in Central Park. People were just crying and singing John's songs and I joined them. And about a week later, I actually went to see Yoko. And that was when, I think, the beginning of our friendship started. We cried together and talked a little bit. But I think it was really meaningful to her that I had spent those three weeks with her and John at the time of their life when they were very, they were happy. I ended up going back to see her frequently and eventually, over time, we became very good friends. 

Sophie Bearman [00:04:03] And now, of course, you've just written "Yoko," that's a definitive biography of her life. But how did you first even get in contact with Yoko Ono and John? Because you were really just starting your journalism career, right? 

David Sheff [00:04:14] Well, I actually fell into journalism. I went to college in Berkeley, and in San Francisco, there was a startup magazine that I worked for as an intern and then as an assistant editor. And at the same time, I was doing my best to break into some of the bigger magazines. But I was in New York working on a story, and I convinced the editor of Playboy Magazine to let me come see him. While I was there, I convinced him to give me an assignment, and he asked me to interview, actually. It was John Belushi and Dan Aykroyd who were coming out with the Blues Brothers movie at that time. As I was leaving his office, he said, 'Oh, by the way, do you have any way to get to John Lennon?' And I didn't, but I was 24 years old and I didn't know any better, I guess, or maybe I did. But either way, I said, sure, I can do that. And I got in touch with everybody I knew in the music business and wrote letters and sent telegrams. Then one day I got a phone call from somebody who said he worked with Yoko and asked me when I was born and where I was born. I told him, and apparently based on my numerological chart and my horoscope, Yoko gave me the go-ahead. When I finally met her, she told me that my number was the same as John's, which is number nine, which he used in "Revolution No. 9" and other songs of his. 

Sophie Bearman [00:05:35] The star is literally aligned. I know that's corny, but in this case... 

David Sheff [00:05:38] No, it's true. It's exactly right. And suddenly I was sitting across from John Lennon and Yoko Ono and we began what was three weeks of interviews. 

Sophie Bearman [00:05:48] You actually chose a Yoko Ono song as one of your seven. So tell me which one you chose and. 

David Sheff [00:05:56] Well, one of the things about Yoko is within the avant-garde's art world, which was a rarefied world, she was emerging as an artist through the 1960s and she then got together with one of the biggest celebrities, stars, whatever, in the world at the peak of Beatlemania. And so she was introduced to a mass audience, not because of an organic way that her work was appreciated. So the people who were listening to "All You Need Is Love" and "She Loves You" and I mean all the Beatles songs were introduced to Yoko's music and Yoko's music is completely wild. When I finally got over my sort of resistance to really listening, it thrilled me. It was this pure expression of everything, of joy, of love, but also of a lot of pain which Yoko carried with her. And that song in particular, the song "Why" was on the Yoko Ono Plastic Ono Band record, her first solo album. And that record is still my favorite. So I mean, the album is one of my favorite albums. And on that album, the song "Why" is remarkable. It is Yoko repeating the word why over and over and again. 

David Sheff [00:07:26] Oh, it still gives me chills. What I came to understand was that it was why in so many I mean, it meant so many different things. It was, you know, why life and why death? Why pain? You know, Why suffering? And as I said, she suffered a lot. And so it was really crying out in many different ways. And it's followed by another song in the album called "Why Not," which I think is kind of great. It's the universe's response when you ask "why?" I mean there's really no real ultimate answer. A lot of people I talked to researching the biography about Yoko cited that particular album and this song as a huge influence on them and they were people like David Byrne and Lady Gaga and Laurie Anderson and RZA and Kim Gordon and Thurston Moore, you know, Sonic Youth. So it really ended up being really an influential record, so it wasn't just me. 

Sophie Bearman [00:08:18] David, why do you think Yoko chose you or I guess trusted you to write about her for all these years? 

David Sheff [00:08:23] Well, beyond my -- 

Sophie Bearman [00:08:24] Beyond numerology. 

David Sheff [00:08:25] Right, beyond my birth sign and my number. Well, I was with her at the hardest time of her life. And she was a good friend to me. It wasn't just a one-way street. It wasn't just that I was supporting her as much as I could. I mean, I tried. But she was really supportive of me too, because it wasn't a great time in my life. I had had a very difficult divorce. And then later, sort of the most, I guess, dramatic time she stepped in as a friend and a really loyal friend was when... my oldest son, Nic, as a teenager, and then in his early 20s, he became addicted to drugs, to methamphetamine and heroin and other drugs. And at one point, he was on the street in San Francisco, and Yoko, with her son, Sean, were visiting San Francisco. And when they learned about what was going on with Nic, they were able to get in touch with him and get him to come see them. And Yoko scooped him up and put him on a plane and brought him back with her to New York, and he stayed with her at her apartment in the Dakota, and then she took him up to her farm up in upstate New York, got him into treatment for his addiction, got them to see a psychiatrist. People have these ideas about Yoko, as if she, you know, I think it's surprising for people to hear how giving she was and what a loyal and kind friend she was. 

Sophie Bearman [00:09:45] David, it's so full circle because the song that you pegged to your childhood comes from the Beatles. It's "Strawberry Fields Forever." Why did you choose that one? 

David Sheff [00:09:55] Well, I was a sort of alienated, lonely, angsty teenager. I was born in Boston and I grew up there for a while, but then we moved to Arizona, which was incredibly conservative. I felt lost and I was one of those kids. I was up late one night and there was an FM radio station that was, you know, this really cool DJ who would just talk all night and play records. And he one night announced that he had this new record from the Beatles and put "Strawberry Fields Forever" on and he played it. And it was like being saved. I mean, in some way, I related so intensely to that song. you know, John sings. "No one I think is in my tree / I must be high or low." Well, I didn't think anyone was in my tree either. I thought I was sort of the stranger in a strange land. So it spoke to me and it also has this optimism. He concludes some of the verses with it's all right. It's gonna be okay. And that was a message that I really needed to hear as well. And come on, it's just one of the greatest songs ever written. 

Speaker 4 [00:11:00] Living is easy with eyes closed / Misunderstanding all you see / It's getting hard to be someone, but it all works out / It doesn't matter much to me / Let me take you down, cause I'm going ...

David Sheff [00:11:29] Yeah, "living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see," that was another line in that song that really meant a lot to me because I was just trying to figure out who I was and what I wanted and what life was all about. And I saw what I considered to be, you know, sort of this conservative way of living that I just didn't want any part of it. And so this idea of "living is easily with eyes close," I mean, I was determined not to do that, to live with my eyes open even though... as I learned over time, it's not always easy. 

Sophie Bearman [00:12:01] Tell me about your fourth song, "Astral Weeks" by Van Morrison. 

David Sheff [00:12:05] Well, I was in Arizona and miserable and one weekend, a friend of mine and I got in his car and we drove all night to San Francisco. It was a foggy morning and we somehow ended up at the top of Twin Peaks, just as the sun was rising through the fog. And it was, I just felt I could breathe after being in 120 degree, you know, Arizona weather. And... Of course, culturally, I felt like I could breathe as well when I got to know the city and spend time in San Francisco. And that's when I first heard "Astral Weeks" by Van Morrison. And so for me, it's sort of inextricably tied to a time in my life when I finally found a place to live. "I'm nothing but a stranger in the world," Van sings, and that's how I felt. And he talks about being born again, but he's not talking about being born again in religion, he's talking about being born in a spiritual way. It's always been one of my favorite songs and I still listen to it a lot and I was able to turn on my kids to it. I mean, it means a lot to me. 

Speaker 5 [00:13:11] Ain't nothin' but a stranger in this world / I'm nothin' but a stranger in this world / I got home on my own / In another land / So far away 

David Sheff [00:13:32] Oh, that one almost makes me want to cry, it's so beautiful. His voice is this amazing, beautiful instrument and I kind of go right in there with him and you know he can take me sort of wherever he wants to go and to me, you know, it was being alive again. 

Sophie Bearman [00:13:53] It's time for a quick break. When we come back, David takes us on his journey to fatherhood. Stay with us. 

Sophie Bearman [00:14:17] You have three children, Nic, Jasper, and Daisy. Did you always know you wanted to be a parent? 

David Sheff [00:14:23] I never thought about it, actually, until I think that I was with John and Yoko in 1980. They were great artists and they had unlimited money and all the things that people think are important and they talked a lot about how that did not make them content at all. They both were really struggling. They both are unhappy. They both have felt alienated and it was only when they gave all that up for a while and lived a very quiet life at home and then eventually had a child, Sean, that they found some peace. And I saw, John in particular was the one of the two who really raised Sean, he called himself the house husband. He stopped making music, he stopped doing interviews until Sean was five years old. And it was so much fun to be around the two of them together. You know, John lit up. It was absolutely what he loved more than anything in the world was being a dad. And they played together. John read Sean stories and told him stories and played him songs with his guitar. And they had a room right next to the main kitchen that used to be their dining room but had been converted into some giant playroom. And there was a circus trampoline in the middle of that room. And John and Sean would be bouncing on that. And it was heaven to watch. This was a person who had been lost. John said that he wrote the song "Help" because he was crying out for help, because he miserable. And the John Lennon that I saw when he was with his son, you know, was not miserable at all. He was thrilled. And suddenly it opened me up to the idea of being a father. And I saw what it could mean to be a father and a couple of years later, my son, Nick, was born and I got it instantly. I loved being a farther more than anything I'd ever done. 

Sophie Bearman [00:16:16] So David, your memoir, it's called "Beautiful Boy, A Father's Journey Through His Son's Addiction." How did that journey begin? 

David Sheff [00:16:24] When I finally became a father, my son, Nic, was my beautiful boy. And I sang him that song all the time, every night before he went to bed. I mean, he was an amazing kid. I mean I'm his dad, so I'm probably a little bit prejudiced there, but he was just this lovely, lovely child. I thought I had prepared him for the world of drugs and I wasn't naive about drugs. I did a lot of drugs when I was young and so I thought that I would have some credibility when I talked to Nic about drugs. My college roommate ended up overdosing and dying. So I was completely blindsided when I found that Nic was smoking pot when he was only 11 years old. But I met with his teacher and the school counselor and they told me, "don't worry, Nic's a great kid. He's fine. Kids experiment. It's a rite of passage." And that's exactly what I wanted to hear, that Nic is fine and, of course, he wasn't. Over the course of high school, his drug use continued. And then he ended up using harder drugs, and he ended up becoming addicted to methamphetamine and heroin and other drugs as well. And it was a decade of hell, having a child who was addicted. This idea of John singing, "hold my hand when you cross the street," well, I couldn't do that anymore. I couldn' help him, and I did everything I could to try to help him. And that was my life, really, for 10 years. I wanted to write about it because I had thought this was the kind of thing that could never happen to me. I mean, I had an image of what drug addicts look like and they didn't look like my son and I think most people feel that way. So I wanted people to know this can look like anybody. And that became the book, "Beautiful Boy." And when people read that story, I heard from many, many thousands of people who communicated with me that they, too, were dealing with addiction in their family, whether it was their child or their husband or their wife or their partner or their parent or brother or sister, whoever it was. People always say the same thing. It's sort of like, you know, your story is our story, your family's story is story. But a lot of times the stories are tragic because ultimately Nic got in recovery and he's been sober now for about 13 years, but a lot of these people are losing their children and it's just a tragedy, of course. 

Sophie Bearman [00:18:48] I'm sure with addiction there are just countless painful moments and lowest lows that just keep getting lower, but I'm curious if you're willing to share a story that sticks out that was particularly painful from Nic's darker times. 

David Sheff [00:19:04] It was 10 years of dark times. Every time I thought it couldn't get worse, it did. The way I found out that he was actually using needles, was I got a call one day from an emergency room doctor who told me that Nic was in the emergency room and they thought they were gonna have to amputate his arm because it had become infected from shooting up drugs. So that was the first time I knew that Nic was injecting this poison into his arms. That was terrifying, and the doctor was able to save his arm, so that was the good part of the story, but it was terrifying. I would go out in the middle of the night sometimes trying to find him, because he would-- I sort of knew the neighborhoods where he might hang out in San Francisco, and it was, you know, fool's errand to try to find a child who doesn't want to be found. I mean, it was living with the idea that he could die any time for all those years. That's what it's like to live with somebody who is addicted. We just don't know. And like I learned that there's only so much we could do. And so it's a really helpless feeling to feel that you could lose somebody that you love to drugs. 

Sophie Bearman [00:20:16] In your memoir, you write that your relationship with music changed during this whole period. How so? 

David Sheff [00:20:24] One of the great things about being a parent, I guess, I don't know if other people feel this way as well, is sharing the music we love with our children. And so when Nic was gone and I was terrified, a song would come on the radio and I would just lose it. Actually, one time I was with Daisy, my daughter, in a store and just over the sound system, the song, "Tears in Heaven" by Eric Clapton came on and it's about Eric Clapton's son dying. And I just lost it in the store and poor Daisy was appalled. It could happen with any song, but especially if it was a song that connected to Nic in some ways for me. In the book, I think I warned parents. I said, you know, "be careful what you listen to."

Sophie Bearman [00:21:11] You chose Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit," but covered by Patti Smith as your next song. Tell me about choosing that one. 

David Sheff [00:21:18] Well, it was a really big song for us. It's this exuberant, radical, angry song that was one that I associated with Nic when he was struggling as a teenager. As Nic grew older, he had really great taste in music and just as I originally introduced him to music, he introduced me to a lot of music. Nic was the one who turned me on to Nirvana and we were sort of obsessed together. And I took Nic to see Nirvana in concert and it was this rage that came out of Kurt Cobain, you know, it's just riveting and haunting. And the song took on new meaning when Nic was using drugs because it was one of those that really was connected in my mind to Nic and sort of the rebellion that was expressed in that song was part of what I felt Nic was experiencing and feeling. "I feel stupid and contagious, here we are now, entertain us," was this crying out, and I felt that Nic was crying out." 

Speaker 5 [00:22:19] With the lights down / It's less dangerous / Here we are now / Entertain us / I feel stupid and contagious / Here we are now / Entertain us

David Sheff [00:22:41] The other thing of course happened after Nic and I went to see Nirvana was the next year, actually, Nic came home from school one day and told me that Kurt Cobain was dead and he killed himself. So there's a real darkness that comes along with that, as well. And when I heard Patti Smith's cover of that song, it really expresses that sadness in the way that she communicates, you know, she's brilliant and I love her.

Sophie Bearman [00:23:06] David, did you ever feel like you were responsible for what happened to Nic? 

David Sheff [00:23:11] I did. I thought that I did something wrong and I felt judged. I felt ashamed. I racked my brain to figure out what had gone wrong and what did I do. His mom and I had a very difficult divorce when Nic was young and so I thought, you know, I blamed that for Nic's unhappiness that led him to his drug use. I had done a lot of drugs as I said earlier and thought that somehow I influenced him in some ways, I mean, I didn't do drugs in front of him or anything like that. But still, somehow, I felt that there was the connection there. As he came nearer and nearer to dying, or doing some other irreversible damage to himself, I felt I was a terrible father. I wasn't able to protect my son. And I know it's a common feeling that people have, because we so badly want to protect our children, but sometimes we can't. 

Sophie Bearman [00:24:06] I can't imagine how hard that must have been. I just had a daughter, she's only five months old, but you never picture that that can happen, and, of course, it can. 

David Sheff [00:24:15] The other side of the hell of addiction is the amazing, incredible joy of recovery. Sort of the amazing thing now is that I said that I sang "Beautiful Boy" to Nic when he was little, and now Nic has a baby and yours is five months old, Nic's baby is seven-and-a-half months old and I am already singing that song to his little beautiful boy. And people who go into recovery are some of the most amazing people I've ever met. They've been through hell, they've been through the gauntlet, and they survived it. And they come out, you know, appreciating life and appreciating their loved ones in ways that maybe they never would have without having gone through what they went through, and that happened with Nic. And it took a long time to rebuild our relationship, but now I see him all the time. I talk to him all of the time. He lives not that far from where I am and he has this little baby. And so we take walks on the beach a few times a week. Nic has, you know, his baby in a snuggly pack, and it's heaven.

Sophie Bearman [00:25:21] Your last song, you chose a Talking Heads song. Tell me what you chose. 

David Sheff [00:25:25] Well, I chose "This Must Be the Place" by Talking Heads. I talked about how unhappy I was growing up and how much time I spent searching for an answer. And the answer that I came to is expressed in that song, you know, by David Byrne. You know, he says, "Home is where I wanna be / Pick me up and turn me around / I feel numb, born with a weak heart / I guess I must be having fun." I mean, home was where I want to be. And that's exactly how I feel. 

Speaker 5 [00:25:50] There was a time before we were born / If someone asks, this where I'll be, where I'll be / Hi yo, we drift in and out /Hi yo...

David Sheff [00:26:09] It's such a beautiful song. I had to have this one in there because it is-- still, when I hear it, it brings back everything and it comes full circle. I mean, this idea of searching, this idea of suffering, and this idea of struggling, and then finally coming home. With my wife, my children are now not home. They're off into the world, but the idea of having been through what our family has been through, which is a lot. You know, coming to some place of peace after all that is incredibly meaningful and I feel peace when I hear that song. 

Sophie Bearman [00:26:45] This whole interview, to me, is about parenthood. You know, your love for your children is everything. 

David Sheff [00:26:53] With the hard stuff that we went through, one of the lessons that I learned, I learned it the hard way, because there were times when I wanted to give up on Nic, but I never could. And that bond between parent and child is everything. When Nic was little, as he was growing up, when he would leave to go spend time with his mom, I said to him, everything. And he said to me, everything, and it was our way of just saying everything. You know, I will miss you, I love you, you are everything to me. I hope that maybe the joy in our relationship and the dedication as a father is something that he learned, and I kind of think he did. I mean, to see him with that baby is, it's just so much joy. I mean he carries that joy with him and he carries it with him as a dad. I wouldn't take it for granted anyway but because I almost lost him, I didn't think he was going to make it to 21 years old and he just celebrated his 43rd birthday so it feels like a miracle. He's just grown into this is an amazing person. 

Sophie Bearman [00:27:55] David, thank you so much for sharing your songs. 

David Sheff [00:27:59] Thank you, Sophie. It's been amazing to talk to you. 

Sophie Bearman [00:28:25] Life in Seven Songs is a production from The San Francisco Standard. If you enjoyed this episode, you might love our interviews with Chesa Boudin and Daniel Handler. Both explore themes of what it means to be a parent, so check those out. This episode was produced by me, Sophie Bearman, by Michelle Lanz, and by our senior producer, Jasmyn Morris. Our executive producers are Griffin Gaffney and Jon Steinberg. This episode is mixed by Michelle Lanz, our theme music is by Kate Davis and Zubin Hensler, and Clark Miller created our show art. Our music consultant is Sarah Tembeckjian. You can find this guest's full playlist at sf.news/spotify. Thanks for listening and see you next time.